Surprised this wasn't on PH sooner...excited to use this if it ever launches.
@mzuvella this is the ios app. Launched today. The app store link hit PH before any other site :)
Super pumped for the product to ship. Not crazy about some elements of the app right now. Confident they'll get it right though.
@jtriest Ha! Didn't catch the iOS part.
The morse code tap to unlock (as opposed to a pin) is an interesting design choice. I was listening to music while I set my tap code, so hopefully I can remember it. I haven't seen yet how they deal with forgotten tap codes.
@paulgambill was just going to post a question about that. Anyone know why this approach would be more beneficial than numeric input?
@paulgambill I don't like the tap i set a super simple tap because I'm sure ill never remember a complex sequence. To me thats a huge security flaw. Im sure I'm not the only one who doesn't speak morse code ;)
@paulgambill I really don't like this.
1) Strikes me as being different just for the sake of being different.
2) It's less secure than a four-digit code because there are few possible combinations
3) It requires users to remember one more password.
I really hope Coin ditches this feature.
@paulgambill I think the morse code element is a very bad idea. It's not in my traditional password/pin workflow and nor will it be - either memory or software like 1Password. I expect people will either forget or do something very simple, a la 'password' as your password.
@paulgambill The morse code is ridiculous. I wonder what % of passwords are just all short taps? Otherwise, how would anyone remember? I can't think of a single reason this is a good decision other than novelty (which should be reserved for non-security features).
@far33d Wouldn't someone trying to break in have the same reaction? I think in this case different is better. How many passwords are password? And how many 4 digit pins are 1234?
@mzuvella I bet a higher % of coin morse passwords will be generic vs. regular passwords or PIN's. But that's a guess.
@far33d yeah, I'd be shocked if at least 80% weren't 6 short taps.
@paulgambill I have already forgotten mine.
Philip I. Thomas
@paulgambill Few people have used morse code, so I don't expect much variance in codes.
Plus, it's not necessarily a complex code to crack - 2^6 = 64 combinations.
@jtriest I believe they're going to have a morse code tap system to "lock" your card when a server takes it, so that it can't accidentally be switched after you give it to them. Since the card itself only has the one button, it's the only way you can do it there. I'm thinking they probably did it within the app to maintain consistency and get people used to the "feel" of it before they have to do it on the actual card.
@ashleykolodziej very clever point, Ashley - I hadn't thought of that.
@ashleykolodziej yep - that's what they just told me
@paulgambill It's necessary because the card itself has a morse code tap to unlock in case your phone loses battery. Having you practice it by unlocking the app at least marginally increases the chance you'll remember it that once a year something goes wrong.
The problem I have with the app is the same reason I never preordered a Coin card - it doesn't support Chip & Pin which is set to become the US standard next year and is already a standard in most international countries. In a recent interview, the founder of Coin dismissed the need to innovate for Chip & Pin. He may have been being coy about future product roadmap, but it doesn't give me great confidence this solution will work more than a year or two.
EDIT: Looks like I was wrong about this. Swipe cards will still be accepted for the foreseeable future and Coin is a viable replacement. I still see trouble because by their own estimates, Coin only works at about 80% of merchants. However, I thought with Chip & Pin it'd a much worse problem.
@eric3000 this is the reason I asked for a refund, when they sent out an email last week offering one.
@eric3000 @ccarella Chipped cards only protect fraud in “card-present” transactions. Your number can still easily be hacked via a Target like breach. Plus with @simple, @getmoven and now @coin sending real time notifications for every transaction, you will know immediately when someone other than yourself uses your card. So how does the chip really help?
@mzuvella Im going to punt on your question because I am not a security expert. Whether they are hackable or not, chip and pin is going to be US standard by law. To pay, you'll need it and Coin doesn't have it.
@eric3000 You don't need to be a security expert...a chipped card means you insert into the card reader and it reads the chip vs. today's traditional swipe. The chips are harder to duplicate but your number can still be used without your consent.
And required by law? VISA and MC have said they are making the switch in Fall 2015 but I haven't heard anything about it be required by law.
@mzuvella I understand how the chip works vs. swipe. I was passing on your question because I cannot comment on how easy to hack any of these security measures are.
As for the law, I was mistaken. There was heavy pressure from the government for the change, but no law was passed: http://blogs.wsj.com/corporate-intelligence/2014/02/06/october-2015-the-end-of-the-swipe-and-sign-credit-card/
@ccarella Yup me too. Regarding the law, this is how it works as I understand. Starting Jan 2015, the lowest technology eats the bill for the fraud. So if Visa/MC does not send you a chip card, they will eat all fraud losses starting in Jan. If Visa/MC replaced your card to one with a chip, but the merchant did not upgrade the terminal, you'll still be able to use the new card, but the merchant will eat the loss from any fraud. If Visa/MC sent you a card and the merchant upgraded their terminal but you're using the Coin or an "old" card, you eat the fraud. It's a safe bet everyone will get a new card in the mail on or before Jan '15. So it will be up to the merchant to upgrade asap. I'm sure the big ones will. It's only the little guys who won't. But if you're using the Coin after Jan and the merchant has the new terminal, you'll still be able to use your Coin, but all your fraud protection goes away. Thanks but no thanks.
@mzuvella one of my big concerns is that in-store vendors will refuse to take cards that are not chipped. If the point of Coin is to only carry one card but some vendors don't accept that non-chipped card, I'll still wind up carrying a pocket full of cards.
@ccarella True...but that is at least 2 years away. Chips are a fundamental change and it won't happen overnight. Coin will have plenty of time to release an updated model.
@eric3000 "chip and pin is going to be US standard by law. To pay, you'll need it and Coin doesn't have it." — this is not correct. I am from the UK, which has had chip and pin for like 10 years. All the readers still have a swipe slot, as well as "dip" for chip and pin. if you have a swipe card, you can just swipe it instead.
@ccarella "one of my big concerns is that in-store vendors will refuse to take cards that are not chipped" — they will accept non chipped cards, especially as loads of people are still going to have such cards for ages. In the UK, which has had chip and pin for ~10 years; the machines all have two slots - one for chip and pin, one for swipe, depending what card people have - to accommodate people coming from abroad with non chip cards etc.
@eric3000 There isn't going to be a law per se, they will just be forcing the fraud to the merchant if they don't update their systems to support EMV.
@eric3000 Have gone through the transition in Canada before and if you don't have a chip, you just swipe. And it's never once been brought up that no chip is an issue.
@eric3000 that's actually not true. the US will adopt chip'n pin next year but swipe cards will likely represent more than 50% of transactions for at least 5-9 years according to estimates. There's no way merchants will stop accepting swipe until that ratio is less than 5%.
I agree with @eric3000 about the chip and pin. But security will be an issue if and when they ever get the physical product out.
@etang20 Security in what way?
Still skeptical on this one. Seems like they still haven't delivered and feel it will be outdated when it does. America is rapidly moving into EMV cards, how will coin be able to provide that? Has there been any news of any major credit card company working with coin?
Thanks @jtriest i forgot this was dropping today
Trying to add a card, but I can't because the small amount that Coin supposedly charged to my account hasn't posted. My only way out of the screen I'm stuck on now is to cancel and lose all of the information that I entered. Very frustrating.
EDIT: Apparently my patience has a one-hour time limit. Just deleted the Coin app. Not sure that it really added any value anyway.
@maxwendkos You check your pending/authorizations? It doesn't actually post to your account.
@mzuvella Yup. I have no pending charges.
I don't understand why I'm asked to take a picture of the front and back of my cards, then enter the information manually, and then Coin presents me a generic version of each card by brand. I carry two Visa cards (debit and credit), and I can recognize them VERY easily in my wallet since they look completely different. Not so much with Coin.
@adamsigel totally agree. there are a lot of poorly thought out things with the app. there are easy ways to do picture scanning and automate the card entry - I was confused and then surprised that I had to manually enter it. Card entry also isn't as smooth as I'd like it to be.
Moreover, you can't even change the name of the cards in your wallet. I have two mastercards, and they are both labelled MC. It seems that the only thing you can do is change the colour by swiping. I'm not sure I understand why I took the picture if I can only see it when I click in to edit it.
@minarad I didn't even see the swipe-for-color option. Thanks. Still doesn't help too much since the color options don't match well to the actual cards they represent.
(Also interesting that this is shaping up to be the #2 hunt of the day but the comments are overwhelmingly negative. Has that happened before?)
@adamsigel it let's you change the style of the cards (color) in the edit screen by swiping left/right.
Philip I. Thomas
Identify verification isn't letting me through and their customer service line has been busy all day. Unfortunately there is no queue for the phone number - it tells you a support email address then hangs up if reps are busy. No idea when they will finally get around to verifying - I'm assuming the support queue is huge.
The app seems like it was rushed. On my phone, input fields go out of view while I'm entering input. I haven't input any cards yet, but the app needs a bit of TLC.
Really surprised that no one @coin felt it was worth their effort to come on and defend or recognize PH exists SMH
@solfrombrooklyn they have like a bazillion sales; product hunt users are only a small part of that - so I don't think it's mandated for them to recognize that ph exists, maybe no one told them ;)
But yes, there's a lot of good feedback here and I just sent it to their COO to check out the UX comments from people.
@_jacksmith Thats my point sales are telling them they can ignore users even when they've missed deadlines they've set. The decent thing to do would be to engage on an open forum like this and do some Q&A.
Answer some questions make people think you care. There are many hunts with the little green M
@solfrombrooklyn I don't think that sales are telling them that they can ignore users; I think it's just a case that they have like 4000+ comments on their own internal channels to respond to.
Also, despite the great turnout at tonight's event, we can't assume that everyone knows what Product Hunt is, or when their product gets posted here :)
@_jacksmith Whaaaat haven't you seen the http://valleyball.co predictions on PH valuation. Ph is already a household name (or should be) all across america!
@solfrombrooklyn Valleyball is sandbagging our valuation. ;)
To defend Coin, we emailed them and yesterday they were incredibly swamped, trying to keep their servers up. I can empathize with this. That said, I'm confident PH AMA's on launch day will be an honor and expectation on launch day in the near future. cc @_jacksmith
@solfrombrooklyn Haven't you seen the last couple of their emails? They have their heads soooo far up their **s, that this is the least of their worries.
Good night Coin. http://m.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2014/10/17/executive-order-improving-security-consumer-financial-transactions
Have one and have been pleasantly surprised with it. It actually works in Chase ATMs at their branches, which is a seemingly legit test. Not the best luck at some restaurant POS's...